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Differences
It is always interesting to read about the different philosophies of Christian schools. A while back I think I talked about the Equality Ride, but I cannot seem to find it. Maybe I never wrote about it. The Equality Ride is a project of Soulforce, an organization started by Mel White, write of Stranger at the Gate: To be Gay and Christian in America (which is a great book by the way). The Equality Ride was created to bring attention to and to challenge the anti-gay policies at Christian and Military colleges around the country. They will be visiting 19 different schools between New York and Los Angeles. Here is their overview from their website:
Two of these schools that they will be visiting are Liberty University (Jerry Falwell's school) and Azusa Pacific University (my alma mater and my current home). [Aside: these are the two main schools that I looked at coming out of high school. I am pretty sure I made the correct decision!!] And these two schools have had (or will have) two very different responses. Both schools have policies that speak against homosexual activity, yet each are responding very differently to the Equality Ride. When the group arrived at Liberty on Friday, 24 members were promptly arrested for trespassing. Liberty made it clear that not only were they against homosexuality, but that they also refused to even engage with those that think differently than them. APU, on the other hand, has a different response in mind:
While APU remains staunchly opposed to homosexual activity, they are willing to respond to the Equality Ride in a loving and accepting manner. They are willing to engage with them instead of having them arrested. Now...don't get me wrong. I do not like APU's perspective on homosexuality. And I also do not think that they are always willing to truly have open and authentic dialog on the issue. But I do appreciate how they are willing to respond to a group that is in opposition to what they think. Tell me...which school is doing a better job showing Christ's love? Can you imagine Jesus asking the police to arrest someone that disagreed with him? Comments, Pingbacks:
Comment from: Roland [Visitor] 03/12/06 @ 19:46
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MAJOR props to APU on this one.
ALthough I'm pretty egalitarian when it comes to discrimination against gays in the public sector and I don't thik Christians should be persecuting gays, I think it's silly for these guys to try to force themselves on Christian campuses (campi?). But I think APU's response is the best response.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 01:51
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xianity by nature is intolerant of gays.
it's impossible to coincide homosexuality and being a true xian. not that i agree with it and not that i believe it either. it's pretty damn obvious. it's impossible to coincide homosexuality and being a true xian.I love when people who don't even believe in God or Christianity tell me what I am not a true Christian.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 13:27
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dude, that deserves a big "shut up."
seriously. did i say you were't a true christian? i don't think the two work because the bible clearly preaches against it. i wasn't born yesterday dude. that's one of the myriads of reasons why i've stepped away from it. they just don't mix. so take it whichever way you want, that's how the bible reads. did i say you were't a true christian?You said this: "it's impossible to coincide homosexuality and being a true xian." This states that anyone who coincides the bible with homosexuality is not a true Christian. I am not sure how else to take what you wrote. Gringo...have you ever done an actual study looking at the handful of passages that mention anything related to homosexuality? I do not believe that the Bible talks about homosexuality as we know it today - i.e. two people of the same sex living in a committed relationship.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 14:16
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Yes I have. Have you? It reads plain as day, it's not tolerated. Period. End of story. It's a moot point.
If you're a christian, you can't be gay. Period. Unless of course you care to elaborate but I have to ask, do you enjoy pushing large stones up hill? If one is a bible believing xian, there is absolutely no way to read in homosexuality. So, you can be a wanker and take it personal or you can try and elaborate. All I feel I have to do is quote scripture... it's right there. If you choose to continue to take it personal, then we're through... discussion stops right here. Yes I have. Have you? ... It reads plain as day, it's not tolerated.Yes...a lot of it. And it is not nearly as clear as you think it is. I am curious (not trying to be a smart ass) - what have you done in terms of studying the passages? Have you looked at different perspectives? Have you looked at the original meanings of those texts? Have you looked at the cultural context? Unless of course you care to elaborate.I don't time to fully elaborate at the moment. But I will say this. The word homosexuality is not found in the original Greek. The concept of same sex relationships that is spoken of in both the OT and the NT is very different than the concept that we know today.
Comment from: Roland [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 19:40
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gringo, it IS possible if you revise and twist around context enough. You can justify anything if you try hard enough.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 20:45
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Dave's twisting Scripture.
not that i believe it as i've stated before. it's plain as day. i honestly have no idea how one does it, especially in a religious belief of which one bases their entire life on. i don't think this conversation is going to go any further. and looky, roland and i agree (or so it appears). mark that.
Look...I have asked both of you what you have done to research the verses in scripture. I am not just talking about reading the verses in your NIV Bible. What have you done to research this issue?
I am not twisting any context around. I am at the point where I am not sure about homosexuality Biblically. I don't know if it is a "sin" or not. But I do know that I definitely am not convinced that it is.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/13/06 @ 23:12
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Dave on his soapbox!
Yeah, I've read it in several versions Dave. Have I studied it as much as you? You want to compare wiener sizes while we're at it? I wasn't born yesterday dude. I went to a Bible College, preached, youth ministered. Do you want to compare SAT scores? What does it take? I can tell you what my NASB says and I'm fairly confident that's an accurate translation and it's hard as hell to get around it. That's astounding.What is asounding. That I have done my research? Yeah, I've read it in several versions DaveWow...you have read it in multiple translations. That is not what I am talking about. Studying a passage goes beyond reading a verse in different translations. You need to actually look into the historical and cultural context of a passage to understand its meaning. Have I studied it as much as you? You want to compare wiener sizes while we're at it?I never brought up anything about who did "more", and you know it. I am not looking to start a contest about who has done more research. I am simply asking you what research you have done on the topic. It is a very fair question if you are going to make the assertions that you are making.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 01:07
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No, you're the one who's making assertions. *You* wanted to head that way.
I told you my credentials and I told you it's hard as hell to get around those Scriptures. That's why I backed away. One can't be gay and be a xian, they don't jive... it's obvious.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 01:11
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You're pretty pretentious Dave.
I'm sorry to bother your ego here... but I disagree with you. It's always been pretty damn obvious to me. Yes, I have studied it. And believe you me, I probably know more about this issue personally than you'll ever really want to know.
Comment from: Helen [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 03:57
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Play nicely boys, or you're not getting any cookies.
I know very little about this subject, although I am inclined to agree with Gringo and Roland (typing that made me feel physically ill). But like I say, my knowledge in this area is extremely limited and so I don't really think I'm qualified to comment. One of the major problems with free speech is that even people who are ill-informed get to have a say. In Dave's defence, I don't think he was questioning anyone's credentials, he was trying to start an informed debate in which people cited scriptures to back up their opinions.
Comment from: Roland [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 07:04
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Gringo is right. You can NOT get around this. Denying something obvious like homosexuality being a sin demands exegetical gymnastics that begins with the conclusion first.
You all know that I'm completely against discriminating against gays in the public sector (although I believe in church discipline). There's no doubt that it's a sin. My take is just that there are other sins like alcoholism and adultery that exist in the church that don't get persecuted nearly as bad. But nevertheless it's still wrong. No, you're the one who's making assertions. *You* wanted to head that way.Really...then who said this: it's impossible to coincide homosexuality and being a true xian.Come on - I responded to your assertions, and you know it. Yes, I have studied it.Gringo...then answer my question about it. What have you done? I am curious what resources you have looked for it. I am not asking this to be a smart ass. I am legitimately wondering what you have done to research it. You can NOT get around this. Denying something obvious like homosexuality being a sin demands exegetical gymnastics that begins with the conclusion first.Roland...you never answered my question. Have you ever actually researched the passages related to homosexuality? Have you ever actually done an exegetical study on these passages?
Okay...let me ask both of you this.
In looking at the Bible, do you believe that you need to look at passages within their cultural context? And do you believe that the Bible should be taken literally?
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 11:52
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yeah of course, i was taught that in bible college and it's still a very big consideration today but i don't fully believe it.
yes, some parts of the bible should be taken literally. i've done my own personal studies although some time ago. i have done my own research. i have no certificates or credits to prove it but i've done my own personal research. what the bloody hell do you want? you're getting ridiculous and prideful. some of those verses are just so clear, it's hard to get around it. i could cite them but i don't feel a need to. i've told you why i feel this way, seems sooooooo obvious to me. you've yet to throw out a convincing argument, any argument at that. i feel all i have to do is lay out some verses. you took it personal when i said one can't coincide the two. do you take it personal when i say i don't believe as well? i don't. not sure where all of this is going now.... i'm not doing this purposefully to give you a hard time as *someone* (cough cough brendan - now i've officially dragged you into this). it was conversation, i stated my beliefs and observations so there. nur. nur to all of you. yes, some parts of the bible should be taken literally.What parts? How do you determine this? i have no certificates or credits to prove it but i've done my own personal research. what the bloody hell do you want? you're getting ridiculous and prideful.Gringo...it has nothing to do with pride. I am simply asking you what you have done in terms of researching the issue. I am not looking for a "certificate", I am just trying to understand where you are coming from. I am not sure how that is "prideful." you took it personal when i said one can't coincide the two. do you take it personal when i say i don't believe as well? i don't.Actually, no, I didn't take it personal. I found it humorous that a person who doesn't even believe in Christianity is telling me what a true Christian believes. My original comment that I made in response to you was sarcastic. No, I don't take it personal at all that you don't believe. That has absolutely nothing to do with me. I am not trying to be an ass here. I am simply trying to understand where you are coming from. I am just curious what you have read in terms of your research on the matter. This is not because I want to compete or be right. It is because I am curious. And it is because in the research I have done the issue is definitely not black and white. With that said...I will attempt to discuss some of the passages this weekend, and why I do not believe that they are nearly as clear as people make them out to be. I don't have time right now, but should have more time this weekend. It is long overdue anyway.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 13:02
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you find it humorous?
uhm, i used to preach. i used to be a youth and children's minister. i did my internship overseas for 6 months. i used to live, breathe, and eat this stuff. i used to go to bible college. is that humorous that i can come to a conlucusion like that? if you say so! but you are sorta being an ass. you're looking for credentials or what have you. you want to compare wang sizes and you're doing exactly. what about you? what have you done? what have you studied? i'd school you in personal experiences and with friends... but that's not the point but you choose to make it so. i have a very strong feeling that hands down i'm closer to the issue of homosexuality than you are. i'd scare you out of your knickers. ya can't be gay and be a christian. you could try as you might with verses but it's right there. *yawns* you're looking for credentials or what have you.You really don't understand, do you? I am not asking for credentials. I am not asking for any comparisons. I am simply curious what you have done so that I can better understand where you are coming from. what about you? what have you done? what have you studied?I have read several books, I have looked into commentaries, I have talked to professors, etc. I am by no means an expert in the area, but I have done my research. I gave you a few really quick examples of how I did not feel that the passages in the Bible were as clear as you think they are. And I have said that I will elaborate further this weekend. i have a very strong feeling that hands down i'm closer to the issue of homosexuality than you are.What is your point? I am not looking to compete with you about our personal experience with homosexuality. And I never said I was. Gringo...once again, I am simply trying to understand where you are coming from, and you refuse to tell me.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 15:35
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duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
i freaking told you where i was coming from. it's not rocket science. i would swear you like to argue for the sake of arguing. i have studied it, just as you. if you say it's not about "credentials" or whatever then why the bloody hell do you keep referencing it? i told you studied it. i've read articles, read books, been to seminars even... done my own studies on the side, newsletters, etc. etc. etc. claiming homosexuality is ok is like saying the bible advocates stealing. it's not there. you're *simply* not hearing what you want to hear right now and it baffles you. my point was, i know this issue up close and personal. i've been there, done that, went to bible college lalalalalala etc. etc. i know it and i can tell you, it's not there in the bible. i also brought it up since you're so damn curious as to what i've studied. there, now i told you. happy? you want me to scan my degree in here? anything else? i've read articles, read books, been to seminars evenWell...that is a lot better than "I have read it in several versions." That was all I was asking for - was that difficult? What books did you read? And no...I am not trying to question your credentials - I am genuinely curious what books you have read on the subject.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/14/06 @ 18:31
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i don't feel comfortable disclosing that information here.
*now* do you get it? jeeeeeeeeez.
Gringo...I e-mailed your yahoo account.
This is seriously the most ridiculous shit I've ever read. gringo, I totally understand where Dave is coming from. You've always talked about how the Bible can't be taken literally and you have to take cultural context into consideration. So I can totally understand what Dave is saying. He is also not being an Ass. He just wants to know where you are coming from but you automatically take that as some sort of an attack. He wants to know why you think that you can't be a Christian and be gay or think that homosexuality is okay and why you think the bible advocates that. But all you come back with is "I went to bible college" and blah blah blah. He disagrees with the Bible being plain as day on the subject. it's not that freaking hard to see that. And he's not being an ass. This is why comments and text piss me off because this whole thing could be solved in like two seconds if you were actually talking to each other. So mer to this whole bullshit. But I lean on Dave's side. I just can't reconcile a compassionate and loving God with the whole "homosexuality is bad, mmmmkkay..." stance on things. What happens if it is proven without a doubt that one is born gay? Then what? And I totally agree with Dave (and Roland) that is is complete bullshit that the church focuses so much on homosexuality and not other more prominent sins in the church. i think people love being self rightous and full of themselves so they attack things that they consider threats, things that might not affect them personally (or maybe it actually does and they don't want to deal with it) so they attack those things with all their might so we don't see the actual shit they are doing. And all this is why I don't want to identify myself as a Christian many times and why I'm struggling with my faith. So there you go kids. Argue away. Have a blast.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 10:09
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most ridiculous shit you've ever read? ah, ok.
well, i'm fairly sure i've already answered yours and dave's questions. ad nauseam, i've gone over and over it and he's been about as indepth as i have. i'll say it again, it's hard as bloody hell to get around those verses. no, that's not all i come back with that "i've been to bible college." now that's ridiculous, read what i bloody wrote. more than you'll ever know brendo... that said, i still think the bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin. i don't agree with it but neither do i agree with the bible. neither do i agree it was inspired by "god." so you come in here, get on me for going at it with dave... then basically try to ridicule me and wash your hands of it. ok, i understand. that's usually how xianity works anyhow. i know i can wake up and speak and do freely, even sleep and dream freely. the one day that i came to the point that i was me and there was nothing i could do about it... i felt good and free. i'd rather let nature take its course than let some archaic subjective belief system dominate very thoughts. no thank you. all that said, we differ. it's so much easier for me to differ on religion than that of politics because, at least, politics is something more tangible.
No man, you're not reading what anyone else writes either. no one is. We all read into everything. which is why it's all bullshit. Dave just wants to know why you think it's obvious the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, especially when you take things in a cultural context and study the original greek words of the passage. You were the one that kept saying this was a pissing contest over Bible knowledge and stuff, about who had what degree. Dave NEVER did that. He just wanted to know why you thought what you did. Yeah, i ridiculed you for being pissed at Dave for something he never did and for saying he is holier than thou and other things when he clearly isn't. Sue me. I'm just tired of you and others getting the wrong idea about people and going off on them about stupid crap all the time.
Gringo...I deleted your comment. I am not going to allow comments like that.
Comment from: Roland [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 19:05
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Homosexuality is a sin. Period. But how we react to those sinners shows who the real Christians are. Holding them to a different standard from other sinners is a sin. Perscuting them is a sin.
me, I drink too much. God created me with a genetic inclination to drink too much and I make a choice to endulge in that sin. It's the same thing. Only my church doesn't persecute me for it.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 19:23
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i like to swear therefore i was censored. let me rethink that post again... maybe later.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 19:24
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i have this inclination to swear but my church doesn't persecute me for it. we say fuck all the time. shit, i said it again. fuck.
No...it had nothing to do with swearing. It has everything to do with direct personal attacks against Brendan. And I am not going to allow it.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 19:56
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ah ok. so brendan can attack me. but i can't attack back in defense. noice. how very fair.
pussies.
Comment from: alternate ego to save someone's career [Visitor] 03/15/06 @ 20:09
PermalinkNo man, you're not reading what anyone else writes either. no one is. We all read into everything. which is why it's all bullshit. Dave just wants to know why you think it's obvious the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, especially when you take things in a cultural context and study the original greek words of the passage. You were the one that kept saying this was a pissing contest over Bible knowledge and stuff, about who had what degree. Dave NEVER did that. He just wanted to know why you thought what you did. Yeah, i ridiculed you for being pissed at Dave for something he never did and for saying he is holier than thou and other things when he clearly isn't. Sue me. I'm just tired of you and others getting the wrong idea about people and going off on them about stupid crap all the time. no, i am reading. don't tell me what i am or am not doing, i know i'm reading. i've repeated myself over and over several times. if it's bullshit, and you don't like it, don't comment. i've told dave several times why i think it's obvious. my answer is *very simple*. read. the. verses. it's very difficult (i.e. impossible) to get around those verses. was i the one who kept saying it was a pissing contest? no. he asked, repeatedly and i told him. let me reiterate in case you missed it the first time and just in case somebody missed my view point. crikey. i've studied it. i've been to seminars. talked to counselors. personal experiences. conducted my own studies. read books. read articles. received all sorts of newsletters. my conclusion: according to the bible, being a fag is a sin. i can say that and i will say that. the bible preaches intolerance in regards to gays and it's unfortunate. people only wonder why? duh, read the freaking bible. it tells people to do so for crying out loud. yeah, i said dave was holier than thou. i think you are too. i think most christians are. you guys need to get off your soap boxes and see real life. y'all ain't seen shit. let alone ever probably never freaking step into a gay bar. you know what it's like to be discriminated against? you know what it's like to serve your god damn country and then be discriminated against? it's an awful awful feeling. if you're tired of it, then leave. don't comment. it gets heated in here sometimes (surprise!). inane comments have pissed me off really bad sometimes but i've always come back. it comes with the territory. get some rough skin (not foreskin) and get over it. yeah, we're not stupid... i'm not stupid, this is a forum. comments are limited by the very text i write to put up here. you make personal attacks, expect them back. i won't sit idly. i will be more than happy to return the favor. don't fuck with me, and i won't fuck with you. friend or not, don't fuck with me. i'm bisexual. depends when you get me, sometimes gay the whole fucking day dude. usually 70/30. i've known since i was a wee kid. get me? you want it in writing? there you go. now back the fuck up and enjoy the god damned conversation.
Gringo...thank you for sharing that. It pisses me off that you have been dscriminated against for who you are, espcially by the church.
Your anger towards Christianity and the church makes a lot more sense now, and I understand it a lot more. Sorry it came out this way...
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/16/06 @ 14:50
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For the record, that was *not* me.
I'm not angry at the church nor mad at xianity. It just doesn't make sense. You know where I'm coming from. Elaborate on your point of view and why you think it's a sturdy argument. anyway... i digress. i'm tired of this subject. i'd be interested to know why you're so convinced though. Elaborate on your point of view and why you think it's a sturdy argument.Like I said...I will try to go into more detail this weekend. i'd be interested to know why you're so convinced though.The only thing that I am convinced about is that I don't know, and that it isn't clear. But I will talk more later. For the record, that was *not* me.Are you saing that the comment from "alternate ego to save someone's career" wasn't you?
Comment from: vangie [Visitor] 03/16/06 @ 16:29
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"...the bible, with its fables, allegories and endless contradictions, has been the great block in the way of civilization. all through the centuries scholars and scientists have been imprisoned, tortured and burned alive for some discovery which seemed to conflict with a petty text of Scripture. surely the immutable laws of the universe can teach more impressive and exaleted lessons than the holy books of all the religions on earth." andrew d. white from - a history of the warfare of science with theology" 1896
that was over 100 years ago. and at that time the bible was being used to oppress women and keep women from voting. because, they were to be blamed of the "fall" of man and original sin. we can sit here and quote scripture and misinterpret and look like idiots and name call one another. the fact is that people us the bible take what they want from the bible to support their own ideas and beliefs different groups and minorities, that is a fact. if we took everything from the bible literally we might as well start picking up rocks and stoning people for adultery and rape. oppression in anyway or how you want to defend it is wrong in all respects and hate is wrong in any respect. that is all the equality riders are trying to bring into the public eye. that it still exist and it is disguised in the form of what jesus teachings. the bible was written 2000 years ago, a compilation of different teachings from different religious prophets and teachers. brought together in one “book” to create a moral code during a very tumultuous time of war and division of beliefs. what dave is trying to say is that; is the bible something that we should hold as truth in todays times in comparison to what it's message was 2000 years ago (actually 1,700 years ago somewhere around 300 ad.) gringo we don't question your credentials and we don't care how much bible studying that you've had. i personally just wonder what your "systematic theology" is and why you choose to take what you want from the bible and leave everything else to the wayside. that is all.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/16/06 @ 16:58
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if my so called "studying" wasn't such a big deal... then why are you asking again? why do i feel like i'm being pestered here? especially by that last question which looks like a big pile of crap.
can i ask you the same? why do you choose to leave it out? why do you choose to leave a shitload of verses on the way side? what's your systematic theology? as far as i'm concerned, you're the one who's twisting verses. reads plain as day. why do you take what you want out of the bible and have it say what you want? i've got the same questions for you. jeeeeeeez. i'm really rolling my eyes at you big time. waste of time. bah. go away. i'm tired of this subject. why do i keep commenting?
vangie is not asking what you have studies. vangie is asking how you view the Bible. That is a very different question.
Asking what your theology is is valid. How do you view scipture? How do you decide what needs to be folloed and what doesn't? Those are fair questions, and have nothing to do with what books you have read or studies that you have done.
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/17/06 @ 01:00
Permalink"...and why you choose to take what you want from the bible and leave everything else to the wayside." that's not a provokation? if that's not one, i don't know what is. i ask that fartknocker the same damn question. you want to know my systematic theology? i *don't believe* in xianity. i used to. when i did, i was fairly open minded... more than most. but being gay was simply out of the question, it just wasn't an option. it was more than clear, it just was. you can't be gay and be a christian at the same time. it's forbidden, just like stealing... just like adultery. it's bad. everybody on this freaking blog knows how i view the bible. it's man made and therefore fallible. it is not the word of god, it's words of man put together by man, collaborated by man, judged by man, etc. etc. like i said, i have a little bit of authority on the issue... and i know enough to know better. so before i get lectured by some alleged "liberal" christian... think again. the bible preaches and breeds intolerance. almost any religious belief if followed fanatically does. look at the byproducts, it's quite obvious to me. i'm not angry at christianity (sometimes i guess), i'm angry at stupid "christians" who think they've got it all figured out and lecture others on the so-called facts of life when they've yet to really experience it in the first place. some have yet to step foot out of their own country for crying out loud! that totally changes the way we view the world and think. see what i mean? i cannot tell you what gets under my skin more than a stupid annoying so-called "pro-israeli" republican christian. gah. make me puke for crying out loud. if there's a hell, they're going. bastards.
Comment from: vangie [Visitor] 03/17/06 @ 14:22
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i was actually agreeing with you gringo, maybe you should reread what i said. i think the bible in the wrong hands is used to oppress people and that is wrong. i was questioning why you just give up on the idea that it can be used in that way, by saying it's, "in the bible plain as day". that kind of apathy and inability to fight that kind of mentality is why the equality riders are on that bus. i was also commenting on the post in general. the fact is that there are gays and there are christians and some gays want to be christian. but, they can't becuase of irrisponsable interpretation of the bible. people want to have a faith and a spiritual practice and they should have the right to follow that if they choose to.
i'm sorry if you are angry at chrisitanity (sometimes), my comment was never to offend you in anyway. but, i think you can be christian and gay because i am one and my girlfriend is one too and she's in seminary, and on that bus. i do not advocate killing, hate, oppression or intolerance of anykind. and what's with the name calling - fartknocker - what is that? and dave thanks for opening this forum for discussion but, it truly amazes me that people can get so worked up over nothing.
Comment from: Roland [Visitor] 03/17/06 @ 22:48
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It's not a sin to be gay. It's a sin to act gay. God made me an alcoholic. But I make the choice whether to indulge in that or not.
Roland...you have yet to answer my question. Have you ever even looked at a commentary discussing one of the verses that talks about homosexuality?
I have asked you this several times, and you continue to refuse to answer. Something tells me that I know the answer...
Comment from: gringo [Visitor] 03/20/06 @ 00:20
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vangie,
your interpretation of the bible is inaccurate. what it really boils down is this: it doesn't really matter anyway. interpretate however you want (i won't care) but you'll continue living the way you are. is it really nothing to get worked up over? intolerance? hate? prejudice? nothing to get worked up over? an entire belief system that tells one not to be true to themself, a theology that tells one that they'll go to hell if they think a certain way; it's astounding. the name calling. get used to it. my personal expression of saying i disagree with you. most of the time it's done tongue in cheek.. others, not so much. in a real formal debate (which is this is not) my demeanor would certainly change. the real crux of the matter: the bible is not the word of god but of man. and you still charge me with being apathetic and having this inability to read the bible with such loose/crap interpretation. no wonder i called you fartknocker. you're finding something that's just not there. that's almost entirely besides the point, the bible isn't the word of god. it's constructed by man. that ends the argument right there. you're free to live as you, be you, think freely, lust freely, speak freely without the worry of this horrible concept called "hell." roland's right in regards to the plain teaching of the bible. let me reiterate, no one was advocating stealing or accusing that one advocates it... the point was (it seemed pretty damn obvious to me at least) is that getting around homosexuality is about as hard as getting around stealing. it. can't. be. done. first and foremost, you're dealing with an interpretation of man... not god's alleged thoughts. i'm free. i'll admit i'll never say never... but for the time being this is how i feel. i've given it a lot of thought and still have much thinking to do but i know generally where i stand. i'll accept me for me. fartknocker.
Comment from: vangie [Visitor] 03/21/06 @ 16:14
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i have been called a lot of names my whole life. the question really is should i or anyone have to get use to it? my "gay agenda" is wanting to live a normal life where i don't have to walk out my door everyday having to justify who i am to total strangers and douchbags. but, you know what i do...everyday i do my own personal activism of just existing and living in this not so hospitable world. maybe my interpretation of the bible is wrong and so is a lot of different peoples and a lot of them are "strangely" in conrtol of our lives. but, i get use to it and i deal with it and i live my life the best way that i can. with grace and dignity and love and respect for every human being i encounter even if they don't like they way i live my life or the fact that i even exist.
i don't advocate the bible i advocate faith and hope and someday we can all just live peacefully. maybe not in this lifetime but hopefully in the next generation we leave behind.
Comment from: Gringo [Visitor] 03/21/06 @ 19:10
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i agree with you last statment.
it's hard. the first time i had ever been "discriminated" against... it was the most awful feeling i had experienced in a long time and stupid me, i couldn't figure it out. i was so hurt by it and couldn't even pinpoint where the frustration began and ended. now i can think, feel, speak and lust freely. i am me. i am my own creation. i do what makes me happy and usually that's trying to help others. and i feel good about it. i'm glad to be alive. Leave a comment:
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