Dave,
I don't know you very well, ok at all, but I am trying to get to this movie here in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

The walmart movie is going to be shown at a small local theatre in the coming weeks, and some friends and I are trying to get to see it. It will be very interesting to see what the movie shows.

One more thing, stop answering the word of the week before me, you are now winning!!!

pvis

I don't know you very well, ok at all,

That's okay. You are a Visser, so must be somewhat cool.

It will be very interesting to see what the movie shows.

Well...I am not sure what you expect from it, but I expect good things. But then again I have boycotted Wal-Mart for a couple of years, so that should show you my bias.

One more thing, stop answering the word of the week before me, you are now winning!!!

That is the point, isn't it! :)

I am a teacher at a Christian school here in Michigan, and this topic came up in class.

I took this as a great opportunity to "express" my opinion about Wal-Mart to those students who soak up teacher's opinions as their own.

I simply explained that I will not support a system where children are used for their labor force, along with the conditions that those children work in. I had a couple of students who had just gone there the day before, and they were quite upset about their parents shopping there.

I went on to talk about how saving 19 cents on a loaf of bread does not mean that you are necessarily using God's resources in the best way, based on the fact that Walmart is a horrible company to be supporting.

just my 3 cents worth.

pvis

Awesome clip. The jib jab one made the point funnier though.

god bless wal-mart.

2 Questions: (I asked a friend these and she had nothing - but that's b/c she doesn't think for herself only jumps on the bandwagon - so I thought I'd ask you instead...)

1. Why is Wal-Mart demonized? - out of all the ridiculous amount of corporations that offer crap benefits etc. - why is it the new fad to demonize Wal-Mart?

2. And boycotting Wal-Mart - how in the world does that help? - it hurts Wal-Marts profits etc. and basically eventually hurts the employees. So, if I/whoever doesn't like their benefits/wages etc. it seems smarter to take a different route than a boycott b/c the boycott will just hurt those employees more.

I field these questions.. :) Feel free to add to the list

1. It isn't a new thing. Wal-Mart is just one of the most effective at hiring their workers for 39 hrs a week (and not having to offer full-time benefits) and so on. Wal-Mart is also one of the most 'successful'. They are industry leaders in this sort of thing and so if change will come it will probably have to be them first (incidently if memory serves a Quebec [Canada] Wal-Mart recently unionized).

2. They destroy small business. Yes they may (can't verify this) bring in more taxes, but, consider if you own a family business you have a certain amount of dignity, your are in more control of your own life. Further more there is more variety. Then big 'ol Wal-Mart comes takes away any chance for you determining your own way. Soon the only place to work is Wal-Mart.

The same critiques could apply to Microsoft (but this isn't slashdot.org ;) ). I haven't had much sleep so this proably isn't very coherent but this + the other critiques already voiced are good reasons i think.

Mike answered the questions fairly well. Wal-Mart is the "leader" in abusing their workers, and other businesses (both small business and suppliers). They are extremely anti-union, and have even closed a store because of the employees attempting to organize.

As for bringing in more taxes, there is little benefit. The tax increase from Wal-Mart is minimal.

Jackie...what would you recommend other than boycotting? Why should I support a corporation that has businessed that I strongly disagree with. And yes, other corporations do similar things, but as I said above, Wal-Mart is the "leader". We can also support better corporations - like Costco. This is the biggest reason that I stopped using Sams Club and started using Costco. Costco is slightly more expensive, but are significantly better to their employees.

Anyway...that is just a few quick thoughts. There is a ton of information out on the web about Wal-Mart. I will try and compile some of the information in the next week or so.

And Jackie...watch the movie. It will be a biased look at Wal-Mart, but I think that you will at least find it interesting. I have found Robert Greenwald to make very intelligent films. While coming from a progressive angle, he is much less manipulative than Michael Moore.

In addition to what the hippies said (Except for the union part. We have too many powerful unions in this country already), I'll add:

They don't just destroy small businesses, they devastate entire communities. There is one here in Arizona. Main street is a ghost town. Ask one of the few remaining shopkeepers what happened, they'll say "fuckin Wal Mart". Wal-mullet moved in down the road, devastated the main street, and invited the former business owners to work for THEM (at much lower wages of course).

Now that there's no competition, they can charge whatever prices they want and once the town has been completely sucked dry of wages and jobs, they will clsoe up shop leaving nothing but a ghost town and an empty eyesore where once a thriving community existed.

It happens in town after town across America.

I'm for a FAIR free market. Wal-mullet doesn't play fair.

I plan to watch the movie... posted it on my blog... also plan to watch the "counter" movie. I am much more hopeful for the movie if this guy is less manipulative than Moore.

I have heard all of the arguments - all over the web and mainly from college students about Wal-Mart and the negatives... I am not saying I disagree with all of the arguments but it has been bothering me for quite awhile that all the negative focus is on one corporation.

I guess I just wish there was more than one corporation being demonized... this way I think people don't realize how much these problems are happening. Believe me - through my last boss I worked for countless numbers of orgs and know how many give crap or no benefits... The way there are companies that use sweatshop labor - you can usually find lists of those not just one. If that makes sense.

And I still struggle with the idea of boycotting b/c I understand that in the long-term it may be good for people but in the short term it will surely hurt many Wal-Mart employees worse. It reminds me of the casualties of war issue (granted not as severe) but maybe all of us on our high horses should consider that there are around 1.7 million employees that will be affected negatively by a boycott... So, are the short term losses acceptable in the face of the long term positive results? maybe?

Not to mention the way it will negatively impact all of the good that the Walton Family Foundation and the Wal-Mart Good Works Foundation (90% of contributions to local communities) does...

Then also I had dinner a few weeks back with a business/econ professor who is also a priest and he was talking about all of the good Wal-Mart has been doing in China (This prof. lived there saeveral years and plans to move back)... The Prof. was talking about how Wal-Mart was making them raise labor standards / workers rights. So I looked it up...

I have to find where I got this from (it is some site that watches Chinese Lobor Rights) but it said "Wal-Mart monitors their Chinese suppliers, and American labor organizations and media monitor Wal-Mart’s monitoring. “We must treat employees well,” several of the company’s factory managers told this reporter. Wal-Mart has given them specific guidelines on work hours, salaries, working environments, etc. If behavior damaging to labor rights occurs, the most severe punishment is “withdrawal of orders.”
Wal-Mart’s headquarters in China says that it has established labor supervision departments in the cities of Shenzhen and Dongguan, Guangdong Province, and in Putian City, Fujian Province, to monitor suppliers’ protection of labor rights. In 2003 alone, Wal-Mart ended contracts with four hundred Chinese suppliers because of excessive work hours. It also blacklisted forever seventy-two factories for employing child labor."

So, likely the good doesn't outweigh the bad but that was interesting news to me.

I'm not saying I have some perfect answer - just my thoughts... I'm all about Costco - they have the BEST cookies.

Great, right now on the news this guy is saying that we should not shop at WalMart b/c they changed Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays... I'm surrounded.

In China, Wal-mullet stocks porn directly next to the anime.

Sounds funny but I'm not lying.

Costco rules.

roland, can you substantiate that claim with an article or photo?

the walmart here in cc, tx stocks shotgun shells and clay pigeons right next to the toys.

proof of walmart's amoral business practices... bastards.

Gringo, I can substantiate that claim. I saw it with my own eyes. I dont' have pictures though. In addition to porn, Wal-Mart in China sells pirated DVDs, CDs, and software. However, just about ever major store in the country sells all those things as well, so I think they're just keeping up with everyone else. Wal-Mart is already having a HUGE impact on the economy in China. I saw lots of businesses in Harbin close up because of them.

i wouldn't the supposed "green" or civil arms distract me.

the oil companies here in tx do it all the time.

walmart has a bad reputation that's why they're going after them and hopefully they'll change because they can afford to.

That picture is SERIOUSLY disturbing!

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."

--Thomas Jefferson, Letter to his nephew Peter Carr, August 19, 1785.

guns. in the toy section.

retard.

Thomas Jefferson is retarded. You heard it here.

Nice name call. It totally backed up your (valid) point.

er, the quote has got nothing to do with it.

guns. in the toy section. it's pretty damn obvious to me.

i said you were a retard because you're way out in left field dude, gun ownership has got nothing to do with it. that's not even the issue at hand.

my point was, that this is the walmart down the road from me and they've got shotfun shells right by the pink blue bears.

you're a lost cause man, you twist and mince words to have them say whatever you want.

retard. you earned it. i think it backs it up just fine and dandy. where the bloody hell do you pull a jefferson quote when we're talking about wal-freaking-mart? guns are in the toy section at your local walmart. at least move them to a more appropriate section. this is just one of the many problems with walmart.

one more

I completely agree with your point, Gringo, but name-calling is never going to win you an argument.

And I also agree with Gringo. Thomas Jefferson's quote has nothing to do with selling guns and ammunition next to the stuffed animals.

But calling anyone a retard is not going to help either.

puh-lease. have you ever called someone a retard? a wiener? homo? some stupid name?

ok, roland... i'm sorry for calling you a retard. you're a wiener.

better now kyle? dave? still moppy? =(

puh-lease. have you ever called someone a retard? a wiener? homo? some stupid name?

Sure...10 or 15 years ago.

Gringo...you need to learn to have discussions, debates, and arguments without name calling. It is not productive to the dialog, and it does not serve any positive purpose.

And go ahead and call me a hypocrite and "on a high horse" again, but it is my blog, and I am saying to quit the name calling. Do it somewhere else.

You have a lot to offer these discussions, and I appreciate what you have to say. But I do not appreciate the name calling, and it does not add to the conversation.

So stop it.

dork?

yes, highhorse. very yes.

i need to learn to have discussions... holy. crap. duuuuuuude. you are too funny.

is calling you Mom too much?

holy. crap.

10-15 years ago? wow. so... do you joke or horse around anymore?

you seriously don't call any of you friends like a crack fiend or anything?

i'm sorry, but that was a totally retarded statement from roland and i'm laughing about it now. it was dumb. !!!

also... i was totally unaware that this was a professional publication. you know, with all the professional dialogue that does go on around here.

seriously, let's not take ourselves too seriously around here. seriously, i'm cereal.

and i'm going to beat this over the head many a freaking time because it's a bit ludicrous.

ok ok ok, if we were at some formal debate or some formal discussion... obviously things would be oh so different.

but hello?!?! this isn't crossfire so why act like it?!?!

holy. crap.

and roland... i'd drink a beer with you. i think you have some crazy ass views... and i think you say some serverely retarded things at times... i'd have a beer with you... maybe 8.

but you still say retarded things. i'm sorry. not sorry for calling you a retard but for you saying retarded things. ahem. =D

oh. if you have any retarded family or friends. sorry for saying retarded.

and a preemptive sorry for anything i might say in regards to emo or homosexuals. nothing against homosexuals, maybe emo... but homosexuals are cool.

10-15 years ago? wow. so... do you joke or horse around anymore?

Yes...I do, but I sure don't call people retarded or weiners.


i was totally unaware that this was a professional publication. you know, with all the professional dialogue that does go on around here.

I never called it a professional publication. But that does not mean that I cannot expect respectful dialog.

Really, I am not going to put up with this crap. No name calling, or it will get deleted. If you don't like it, don't comment.

then, dave, you lead the way. you bust my balls over something so ludicrous... expect it in return.

get off your highhorse. go take a sip of some strong coffee.

anything else you care to lecture me on while we're at it?

freespeech? how to play nice according to dave? etc...?

*rolls eyes*

<thinking of something controvertial to say so that everyone will direct their anger at me>

<thinking>

<thinking about inciting Godwin's law>

<realizes that won't work if its done intentionlly (Quirk's exception)>

<sigh>

OMG!! U guyz seriously kill me!! I laughed my head off!! the whole wally world thang is sooooooo funny!! I truly enjoyed readin u guyz rippin on eachother! We need MORE fun in this world, instead of the negative!! Just do whatcha can, cuz no matter what....DRAMA IS WHAT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND!!! By the way, i'm still LMAO!!!! take care, later.